David, Will and Liam discuss: The new government; Invited Digital; PIP and reasonable time/acceptable standard; Carer Support Payment (Scotland); Explicit consent in UC; Daily rate of tax credits in managed migration cases; Pension Age Disability Payment (Scotland).

Benefits Newscast August 2024 – Transcript

David Stickland: [00:00:04] Hello. Welcome to our August Newscast. It’s a new month, it’s a new government, and we’ve got new issues to share with you. Will, can I ask you to go first with your first item?

Will Hadwen: [00:00:22] Yes definitely. You can. So I think both Liam and I wanted to briefly say that there is a new government and that we don’t have very much detail at all about what they might do for benefits. But little clues are, they have a back to work plan and the speech by the minister has indicated that they’re very keen on getting people into work, unfortunately, in a very similar way to the previous government. However, no specific changes to work related requirements have been announced, so the only significant thing there is merging the National Careers Service and Jobcentre Plus. Liam, do you want to say a little bit about the PIP consultation, which closes today?

Liam Casey: [00:01:07] Yeah, yeah. It closed today on the 22nd of July. So it’ll be interesting to see what comes out of that. I don’t actually really know, kind of how a new government would respond to a consultation closing that’s been put together by the previous government. They’ll obviously have a bunch of responses. It was really quite a wide ranging consultation with quite a lot of different questions. So, yeah, I’m interested to see sort of how they respond to that. I guess we’ve got other things to look out for as well, haven’t we? Like the Work Capability Assessment plans that were kind of ongoing, before the election as well. I’m interested to see, whether they pick up on any of that and, and kind of how they. Yeah, how they take that forward.

David Stickland: [00:01:52] Thanks. So, yeah, we’ve all been waiting with great anticipation, of course, to find out what would happen with the election and everything. And to some extent, we have to wait some more, I think, to see. To see what actually it means in terms of policy and direction. And like you say, stuff that’s been brought about by the previous, previous government. Yeah, that’s about all we can say really, isn’t it?

Liam Casey: [00:02:18] I guess once we know, we will make sure we bring it to the Newscast. Definitely, yeah.

David Stickland: [00:02:23] Okay, cool. Well, it gets us underway. Thanks. And Liam. So what’s the next item you’ve got?

Liam Casey: [00:02:28] Okay. I’ve got one which is about PIP it was this month, in July, DWP confirmed that the Invited Digital Service for the PIP2 form has been extended to include use by third parties. So what does that mean? Well, when you apply for PIP you can and many people do claim by phone, you complete this PIP1 stage over the phone and then get sent a PIP2 how your disability affects you form. That’s the one that asks you all about your conditions. And you’ve got to complete that and return it to DWP. So if you do claim by phone, you can be invited to complete that either on a paper form or via their website, um, via the Gov.uk website. So previously that website option was only available to people claiming for themselves. So now what they’re saying is that it’s kind of a process that they’ve opened to third parties. It’s not totally clear to me what that actually means. So we had been calling on them to, to kind of let third parties, you know, organisations like, advice organisations, welfare rights advisers to actually, you know, get a way into the web based form. So we could actually kind of put some details into it, maybe have the client check that and approve it, and then and then send it away. It doesn’t look like that’s what’s happened. From what they’re saying. It looks to me like they basically said that they’ll take third party details when you claim over the phone, but it’s still a bit of a mystery what happens after that. So they’ve said that the claimant will still need to make the user account to log into the web based PIP form. So not quite sure how useful this update is going to be. Maybe one to keep an eye on.

David Stickland: [00:04:15] Right. So another one for us to look out for in terms of developments. But things are changing. It seems like you say.

Liam Casey: [00:04:24] And probably just add to that. Sorry, actually, just to say that they have also said that this web based PIP form will be available to people who are moving to PIP from DLA or making PIP claims at age 16. Those making advance claims for PIP in the six months before their current PIP award ends, and it’s not available yet to appointees. Right. Yeah.

David Stickland: [00:04:49] Okay. So you said Liam, people maybe will be invited basically to complete the PIP2 form on a paper version or online. Yeah. Is this something that everyone’s going to have as available to them or is it only certain areas?

Liam Casey: [00:05:07] So it’s everybody as long as they are, you know, not an appointee basically as long as they’re claiming for themselves. But now they’ve said that they’re going to try and let third party organizations help with this, but it’s not clear, actually, whether we’ll get access to this web based form ourselves. I don’t think so. Okay.

David Stickland: [00:05:26] Yeah, great. And in time, in terms of timelines and as you know, when this is all happening it’s not something that is entirely available now, is that right or ?

Liam Casey: [00:05:37] I think they said they’ve done it. So let’s keep an eye out for, for that actually happening. It’ll be interesting to try it as a third party. Right.

David Stickland: [00:05:46] Well, we need to get some experience of it then. And quite often I’m working with families, with children and young people, so and doing these applications. So I look forward to finding out for myself.

Liam Casey: [00:05:56] Yeah. So only worth asking i think if you’re helping somebody to, to to make a claim asking about it when you phone up to make that claim. Right.

David Stickland: [00:06:05] Thanks, Liam. Will over to you again. So I wonder what’s next on your list?

Will Hadwen: [00:06:12] So let’s stick with PIP. I was very pleased to see a decision on PIP about what we call the reliably criteria, specifically the amount of time it takes for someone to do something and the standard to which they can do it. Okay. Excuse me. And this particular client/claimant had MS and that affected his continence of both bowel and bladder. Right. And he managed it. He didn’t have another person to help him, but he managed it in various ways by using pads and using a bucket at work and wiping himself with wet wipes. And it’s all quite you know, obviously very tricky for him. Obviously takes a long time. And also from a standard point of view, didn’t entirely deal with the issue. So despite what seemed on the facts like a really clear, is going to take at least twice as long for me to clean myself up as a person without this condition and a really fairly clear, possibly not to an acceptable standard. The First-tier Tribunal only gave him two points, and that was for the pads, the aids that he used. So the judge said that that was wrong. The tribunal hadn’t made sufficient findings of fact about the standard and nor about the amount of time that he probably took, which it seemed was almost certainly going to be longer. So he ended up getting the maximum number of points in that activity. And he will get an award of daily living. So that’s great for him. But I think it also kind of flags up that when we’re thinking about that reliably criteria more than twice as long as someone without a disability, it extends to the whole of the activity. And the activity might include things like cleaning up. Certainly when it comes to going to the toilet, that are specifically stated in the activity. And secondly, for the acceptable standard to be met for you to be able to do something acceptable standard isn’t just like getting by and managing. It’s being able to have a dignified life. I think there’s a there’s another case which talks about the normal life test. Right and I think that’s so important because the benefit is for the extra time that you have to take, but also for the fact that you may not be able to reach the standard. That gives you that dignity, that gives you that normal life. And the benefits should reflect that. So I’m really happy about that decision and hope that it can be used in other activities as well, potentially.

Liam Casey: [00:08:50] Sounds really useful. It makes me think about aids and appliances in some of the other activities as well. It’s often something I point out on PIP training courses that, you know, if you imagine doing these activities with a lot of different aids and appliances, it could feasibly take, you know, a really long time. So certainly worth thinking about, you know, for activities like preparing food, dressing as well washing and bathing too. I think, you know, all of those could incur a fair amount more time and probably others as well.

David Stickland: [00:09:19] Great. Thanks both. Really underlines the importance of the reliably criteria, doesn’t it? And you know how there’s a lot for us to think about in a nuanced way, gathering information from the person that we’re working with thinking about all of these things. Not just time, but, like you say, acceptable standard as well as the other aspects of reliably. It may be that there’s a lot for us to consider, and I’m sure we’ll be able to share the court decision, Will, won’t we? We’ll put that on our website. But I guess it’s also worth reminding people, especially if you’re fairly new to benefits, that finding case law can be difficult, right? The PIP info website is really brilliant one, isn’t it? Along with the WCA info website for finding some of these decisions. Okay, great. Thanks, Liam, what’s next?

Liam Casey: [00:10:15] I thought I’d talk about benefit in Scotland. Carer Support Payment in Scotland. So we’ve had some amendments made to the regulations for this benefit in June and there’s two main changes, changes that I want to talk about. One is some, changes to the rollout dates, and then the other is changes to the rules for some students who are on benefit. Okay. So rollout date one is quite simple. Maybe I should just say for people who are not aware of this benefit, it’s a Scottish Government benefit. It’s been brought in to replace Carer’s Allowance in Scotland. So the rollout of this started on the 19th of November last year. From that date, you could claim Carer Support Payment and not Carer’s Allowance in three local authority areas in Scotland. I think I talked about it in a newscast back then.

David Stickland: [00:11:04] We did, yes, I remember.

Liam Casey: [00:11:06] And uh, so the change is that it’s now been extended to further local authority areas from the 24th June. That was three further ones. And it’s going to be extended again to, I think seven from the 19th August. So if you’re in Scotland, I’m not going to read them all out, but we can put them on the website, take a look at those and be ready for the roll out of this benefit. Yeah. One way that it’s different from Carer’s Allowance is the rules for students. So most of you will know that if you can’t get Carer’s Allowance, if you’re a full time student, um, but Carer Support Payment you can get it as a student, unless you’re under 20 and in full time non-advanced education. Those people can’t get it unless an exception applies to them. And these exceptions are the things that’s new. So those exceptions are kind of coming into being has been brought forward. So 23rd of June 2024 so they applied from then. So they apply now, right. Okay. So thinking basically about this group, people under 20, in full time non-advanced education and through training, they can now be entitled to Carer Support Payment as long as they are in an exempt group. And those groups are quite similar to the groups that allow people receiving education to claim Universal Credit. Okay, almost the same, I think just one, one difference. So again, we’ll post a link to who’s in those exempt groups as people like disabled students, people who are responsible for a child, people who have a partner who’s not a student, etc.

David Stickland: [00:12:54] Okay. So obviously really important for, for people working in Scotland or working across different nations, I mean, important for, for all of us as well, isn’t it, you know, to understand some of these differences, I think. So it’s really helpful. Thank you for sharing. And for those of us that are not working in Scotland, which includes me, I have to say I find it helpful to know that simply Carer Support Payment  is replacing Carers Allowance in Scotland and that essentially it’s, it’s kind of it’s more generous or more kind in some ways in that it can include more people. Right.

Liam Casey: [00:13:35] For what you’re saying for sure.

Will Hadwen: [00:13:37] Yeah. It can include more people and maybe something for the new government to look at for England and Wales. Yeah. If they’re watching.

David Stickland: [00:13:45] Yeah. I mean, let’s face it, there’s a lot being discussed about carers generally.

Will Hadwen: [00:13:48] There is a lot. Yeah. I just wanted to read a couple of things. One is there is a postcode checker you can use. So if you want to quickly check whether Carer Support Payment is started in your area, you can pop your postcode in. Obviously needs to be a Scottish postcode and then the other thing was to say that in terms of backdating, if you couldn’t get Carer’s Allowance before because the rules hadn’t extended to you and Carer Support Payment hadn’t started in your area, you can backdate your Carer Support Payment to the 19th November 2023 because if it had started in your area, you would have been able to claim it because you couldn’t claim Carer’s Allowance for you’re a student. So that is a little extra nuance that people might not be aware of, which is really important. Yeah, get quite a lot of extra money that way, right.

David Stickland: [00:14:34] Otherwise there would be a postcode lottery. Sort of. Yes. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And for those people that, like me, may not have got all of that first time, Liam, let me just check with you. So for other people that are not under 20 in full time Non-advanced education, other students, Carer Support Payment, did you say is available to that group. Yeah. So it’s only students under 20 in full time non-advanced education that face a possible restriction and then may not have that restriction if they’re within one of the exempt groups, as you said. Right. Yeah. Okay, good. Thank you. Will, I think it’s your final item.

Will Hadwen: [00:15:11] So I’d love to say that I was moving to something that is less complicated. I was going to there was a couple of things I was going to mention. One is there are changes to explicit consent. I’m going to put those in the sources because they’re kind of self-explanatory. Self-explanatory, it can now last for six months. And that’s the main change up to six months, I should say. Right.

David Stickland: [00:15:33] So if you’re an advisor working with somebody who’s, yeah, got a Universal Credit issue and you’re trying to help them, this is going to make it easier for us to liaise communicate.

Will Hadwen: [00:15:41] So I hope so. They’ve shared details of how the agents should record it and things like that. Okay, I’ll put that in the sources. The main thing that I wanted to go over though, was something that we keep being asked about by advisors, which is how do I get the daily rate of Tax Credits for a managed migration calculation ? So there are two main ways. One is if your client is on things something like Income Support, Income Related ESA. That’s fairly straightforward. Just add the daily rate of the elements that apply to them and you can get those daily rates from the CPAG book or online. I’ve put a link in the sources so you can get it there. Make sure you using the rates applied on migration day, which might have been before this April. So check you’ve got the right tax year. If they’re not on those benefits though, it does get complicated. You’re going to have to do a tax credit calculation using a relevant period of one day. That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Basically you take every step of the calculation and you divide it by the number of days in the tax year, and then you round it up or down depending on how it benefits the client. And that gives you your daily rate. The best site for explaining this I think, is the revenue benefits site. So I popped that in the sources as well. Um, we don’t have time to go over it, and I don’t think it would be that useful to do it verbally anyway. But yes, it’s time consuming. You can’t just take it from the client’s award notice, but you will need their award notice because you will need to know what income HMRC are using on migration day.

David Stickland: [00:17:19] Great. Got it. Well, I’m not going to attempt to summarize some of that instead. Like you say, let’s refer to or signpost to the revenue benefits website for further help. Great. Thanks Will,  Liam we’ve got a couple of minutes left, so fairly briefly, I suggest what’s your final item?

Liam Casey: [00:17:40] I’ve got one more, this one’s. Yeah. Relatively simple. Again, new regulations in Scotland for Pension Age Disability Payment. So this is the Scottish Government’s replacement for Attendance Allowance. It’s not been rolled out yet, but they’re going to start you know, opening it up for new claims from the 21st October this year, 2024. It’ll be in phases so that’s going to be in Argyll and Bute, Highland, Orkney Islands, City of Aberdeen and Shetland Islands, and then from 24th March 2025, 13 further local authority areas. And then I think all over Scotland from the 22nd April 2025.

David Stickland: [00:18:23] Thank you. Great. It’s good to be made aware of that. We can have that on our radar. More changes afoot, which of course we’ll come back to in due course as and when things happen. Brilliant. Thanks both. It’s great to see you and thanks everybody for listening. We hope to see you on training soon. And remember, we have our advice service for those people that have attended training with us recently. All the best. Thanks again. Cheers. Bye.

Will Hadwen: [00:18:47] Thanks. Bye.